Valle är två dagar efter operation inte bara pigg, utan SUPERPIGG eftersom han inte fått sin vanliga motion. Superpigg kelpie, med tratt, som helst ska hållas lugn...tack för den...

I natt gav vi upp efter två timmars "vandrande Valle" som inte hittade ro någonstans. Han brukar sova under täcket intill mig, det blir inte vidare bekvämt med tratt. När inte det går ska han ut från täcket igen, och lägga sig med sitt ansikte mot mitt ansikte - med en tratt ivägen blir jag snudd på halshuggen. Deprimerad flyttar han sig nu till husses sida, och försöker halshugga honom istället. Och sedan börjar det om.

Så mitt i natten letade vi upp extrasäng och några filtar och jag och Valle gick och la oss i badrummet. Är jag trött idag? Bara lite...

Berydligt piggare blev jag när jag hittade ett mailsvar från Ken Ramirez i in-boxen! Jag snöar alltid in totalt på nya grejor, och måste förstå inifrån och ut och få ihop det i huvudet, då är det guld att kunna fråga de som verkligen har koll :)

Jag är rosa, Ken är blå.

Hello!

Thank you for an interesting seminar in Uddevalla, Sweden! I am the woman who asked if delta-signals could become cues, if you don´t remember me I don´t mind :)

Anyway, I was facinated by your explanation of LRS. It´s not that common to use in dogtraining in Sweden, and I can really see the benefits! I train competetive obedience, and the frustrationleves are way too high in many dogs. So LRS is really something I want to be able to use and teach!

Theoretically it´s very simple, but I have to get some thoughts straight in my head (I really hope you will understand what I mean):

1. When I compete I have to be quite still and silent, and I cannot click and reward during the competition. I am allowed to praise and touch my dog between the exercises. I want my dog to know that as long as I am silent and passive that is a good thing. (Of course I´m allowed to give cues to my dog.) How do I make the distinction between "LRS = incorrect" and "competition, me being silent and still is a good thing"?

KR: There are many situations in training in which the trainer is doing nothing – what that inactivity means is usually contextual.  You can only apply an LRS when the animal is looking at you for reinforcement, thus at any other time it would not be an LRS.  It is also important to realize that the LRS is not supposed to mean “incorrect” it is simply a procedure to help you to avoid inadvertently reinforcing unwanted behavior.  The animal is not supposed to perceive the LRS as having a specific meaning, it is a procedure for us as trainers to minimize the chance of reinforcing an animal.  Thus, inactivity on your part while the animal is working simply means that they may continue working.

2. How do I use LRS when I`m shaping? I know I asked during your seminar, but I can´t get it to work. When I shape I am already still and silent - there is no difference between my natural posture and an LRS. Exemple: if I want to shape my dog to lay down on her side with her head on the floor, she will most likely try other stuff before she "finds the path". First click is för laying down. From that position she will try stand, sit, crawl, head down. None of these will get her a click, I just wait for her to try lying down again. Normally I will click her 2-3 times just for laying still, to mark that it is a "laying-down"-behaviour. Then I will look for changes in her posture, shifts in her weight, and click for that. In the middle of it all she sometimes try something completely different (go from laying halfway on her side to standing up), I ignore that and she finds her way back to laying down. We continue. I feel that if I give her a cue after she has made a wrong choice she leaves "shaping-mode" and starts "wait-for-cues-mode".

And here comes the question again: is there something to gain by using LRS in my shaping? And please, please, give an example on how to use it in shapingsessions!

KR: You don’t use an LRS while shaping as you have described it, because you are asking your animal to keep working and trying things until the click.  As I mentioned in the last answer, the LRS is not a signal that tells an animal “wrong” or “incorrect” – that is a NRM and is what often causes more frustration.  When shaping a behavior as you are describing it, your animal has learned to try things and to experiment until it hears the click.  I don’t want to tell my dog “no” so I allow the dog to keep exploring until I can find the right moment to click.  No LRS is ever applied, unless the dog quits trying and comes over to me for approval or direction, at which point I would apply the LRS before deciding how to proceed next.  The secret in getting animlas comfortable with that shaping process is to build their tolerance for longer and longer sessions over time.  But generally you simply need to break your approximations into smaller sized pieces of behavior so that you can click more often. 

3. Since I compete I learn my dogs behavioralchains, and they always look the same so I use backchaining. Is there some technique in backchaining that allows me to NOT use a wrong-signal when the dog gets the chain wrong? If I allow the dog to continue, the wrong behaviour will be reinforced, or am I misunderstanding the concept? Ehat I do know is to stop my dog from continuing the chain with a happy "oops" (yes, you were definitely talking about me when you adressed wrong-signals), I praise my dog anyway and tell him it was a good try and I am thankful for the effort, but he didn´t reach "click". Then we try again, and normally he does it correct. I find that this builds frustration, especially when it is a complicated chain that he gets wrong more than once. This is actually one of the reasons why I use wrong-signals, I feel that if he is used to me using them, and know what it means, it is easier for him to understand the concept of back-chaining. After listening to you I feel that there must be another way. How can I change my training to make learning behavioral chains less difficult and frustrating?

KR: When I have a breakdown in a behavior chain, the way that I fix it is to interrupt the chain right after the error, before the dog has the chance to do the next behavior in the chain and I coach the dog through doing the missed behavior correctly, and then allow them to complete the chain.  The reasons behavior chains often break down is because the dog is rushing to get to the end (where reinforcement comes).  By interrupting the chain, it immediately makes the dog correct the behavior, but at the same time allows him to keep working toward his goal.  If a chain breaks down frequently, then it is a matter of retraining and building the strength of the chain back up again.  I understand how your use of “oops” is probably helpful in that situation.  As I mentioned in class, a NRM works, there is just the risk of overusing it.  If you feel it helps your dog, feel free to continue to use it, but just be aware of the risks.

I understand that you will not have the time to give me a long answer, but maybe you can direct me to some article, film, or book that answers my questions? I will of course continue to try LRS on my guineapigs...sorry, dogs, and try to figure out what works for us, but I really want to be able to explain and teach this to others - I feel there is a need!

Så mycket spännande tankar! Jag tror att för mig personligen handlar det om att ännu tydligare definiera vad det är jag tränar - vad vill jag att hunden ska göra? Inte bara vilket beteende, utan hur ska den jobba? Förresten, NRM är No Reward Marker = felsignal.

 

Sofia N

16 december 2011 06:49

Tack för att du delar med dig! Det här så spännande. Jag överanvänder NRM, så nu får jag försöka tänka till!

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